This dialogue took place not long after Julie had tried an extreme exposure and had gone into panic. She was feeling quite vulnerable, on edge and was being ultra careful with her behaviour in case she triggered more panic.
J – i want to just keep sleeping. – not talk to anyone – not do anything
R – i want to suggest that you NOT be careful with yourself
just get on with it
you had a panic attack
J – lol i am doing exactly that… i did not even put on tv ..so i don’t see any scary ads.
R – I know
so right now u make the decision to get on with your day
just do what u would normally do
don’t be careful
J – yes
R – don’t watch how u walk or move etc
just let whatever is be
J – yes
R – it was JUST adrenaline
u were in no danger nor are u now
nor would u be if u had more panic
and u would just work through it again
no problem
if u feel jittery – say “it’s ok to panic – it’s ok to be jittery – go ahead..”
laugh when u see yourself being very careful
J – i know i am much better than i used to be .. yes
R – u had a lot of panic
and simply going over the practice
and sticking with it
brought it RIGHT down
fairly quickly
J – yes
really quickly
my god .. how my mind worked this morning.
R – u got to see how u resisted practice
and how that was just a complete waste of time
J – i was doing everything.. panicking.. practising.. trying to observe like a script..
observing whats happening to me..
R – so – once u finally stuck with the practice it calmed
and that was exactly because you stopped stirring
so now you see for yourself
J – yes.
R – ironically – it was YOU causing your OWN adrenaline surge
J – absolutely
yes
R – but also
see the truth
NOTHING bad was actually happening
J – yes.. i thought about that.
R – it just ‘felt’ bad
J – so I thought .. why not do it again?
yes
R – it REALLY IS just horrible feelings
J – it felt so good that i attempted that..
going out like that .. thinking let anything happen
i missed that so much .
R – u will do that VERY soon but its important that you do it GRADUALLY
its like a fear of heights and going up highest mountain to hang over the edge – it
CAN work
but it also can just be TOO scary
J – and while going i was telling myself that i wont feel panic.. i will be out of panic in two days .. why two months… because if i understand its just adrenaline.. i will go through it peacefully.
then i kept talking to the taxi driver .
R – the problem is you didn’t WANT to panic
J – but in the queue for the ticket i felt so scared..
although at the same time .. i thought it would be ok if i panicked. too.
R – your mission in your head was to go as far as you could and NOT panic
but exposure means going out to ALLOW yourself to panic – GRADUALLY
not to just either hope you won’t panic or if you do you will bear it bravely
J – then when i entered railway station .. i thought i would faint
R – u need to get a correct understanding about exposure practice
J – still i drank tea.. it was too sweet..
R – are u listening 🙂
J – i felt so scared.. what if my sugar was high
sorry – kept writing
R – u are going over script
which gets u nowhere
like gossip for your mind
J – yes
R – simply see that this extreme exposure didn’t work and leave it at that
then figure out how to do exposure properly and gradually
J – yes
R – u need to do so many repetitions of low level panic until there is no problem
u need to work it out
J – yes
R – i will help
we will make a new hierarchy of going out of town
and u need to repeat it every day
GRADUALLY
and before u know it it will be no problem
J – yes
R – u did ‘flooding’
which rarely works
J – yes
R – nor did u memorise your coping statements
nor did u bring a flashcard
or anything
J – yes
R – nor did you work out an achievable goal
J – but good thing was that i panicked.
so i saw that it’s just adrenaline
R – but this has been good lesson
when u help others u will know not to tell them to do too much too soon
J – yes
but why not?
if its just adrenaline? why isn’t it ok to do ‘too much’?
R – its ALWAYS been ‘just adrenaline’
J – if they want to try doing too much?
R – you have ALWAYS been safe
nothing has changed on THAT score
J – then why not do too much?
R – but that adrenaline frightens u to death
Julie: why not keep saying let anything happen.
R – because its too ‘scary’ and we escape and this can stop us from doing regular exposure work – why make people suffer unnecessarily
if u do it your way it could take much longer to recover
J – just trying to make sure .. that its just adrenaline .. and not any danger .. whatever
i tried to do .
i mean .. even if i tried something bigger .. i wont be harmed .. mentally
i wont go mad
or die
R – of course not
J – if i tried to do something big
R – but it’s easier if you do it GRADUALLY
J – yes.. but please understand my point.. i am talking in panic
i want to know.. if accidentally i get into such situation.. still i wont be in any danger
of death or going mad
R – are u concerned that me saying this is almost like saying you ARE in danger
ok
Ah – i see
J – yes
R – that is ‘safety talk’
J – because i am still in some panic
R – can you catch it?
J – yes
ok
R – i am talking about TIME
u are NEVER in any REAL danger
but u THINK you are
so it feels horrible
and flooding can put you off further practice
J – i understand what you are saying
i agree
R – all is ok – u are in no danger
its a matter of why bother stirring when u don’t have to lol
J – lol
yes
i like that better
R – ok
ok – u will need to – over next few days – memorise coping skills
J – yes
Robin: to replace your script
lol
J – ok
R – and keep smiling
🙂